|
Post by XRF Lemarrrr on Oct 31, 2019 12:55:49 GMT
Liberty Media have seen what’s happened in Indycar with spec chassis and 2 engines, spec parts etc and want to turn F1 into the same show where almost anyone can win on the dayThis is what it should be anyway really because atleast then only talented people get into F1 not pay drivers and it'll make for better racing if they can follow a bit. I much prefer F2 to F1 the last few years. I expect to be highly disappointed anyway by these rules tbh. If we look back through the history of our sport then there has always been teams that dominate and plucky also rans, although the Indycar series is supposed to give a greater diversity of winners in actual fact most of the winners are from the biggest teams Ganassi, Andretti and Penske. Drivers in most series pay for their drives either with cash or sponsors, Niki Lauda was a paying driver and he did ok.
|
|
|
Post by boothy116 on Oct 31, 2019 13:16:32 GMT
Liberty Media have seen what’s happened in Indycar with spec chassis and 2 engines, spec parts etc and want to turn F1 into the same show where almost anyone can win on the dayThis is what it should be anyway really because atleast then only talented people get into F1 not pay drivers and it'll make for better racing if they can follow a bit. I much prefer F2 to F1 the last few years. I expect to be highly disappointed anyway by these rules tbh. If we look back through the history of our sport then there has always been teams that dominate and plucky also rans, although the Indycar series is supposed to give a greater diversity of winners in actual fact most of the winners are from the biggest teams Ganassi, Andretti and Penske. Drivers in most series pay for their drives either with cash or sponsors, Niki Lauda was a paying driver and he did ok. It's not about history it's about paving a future for the sport and in it's current state there won't be one. If they want to attract young people into it then it needs a drastic change. In it's present state ol Raghunathan is going to get a seat in a Force India one day and it'll be because they need the money more then talent.
|
|
|
Post by niblips on Oct 31, 2019 13:49:29 GMT
It's a combination of driver and car/team. Dumbing down the team development role with spending caps and parts limitations dumbs down the whole sport. If i wanted to watch a sport where any driver could win on any given day there are dozens of them to choose from already. Why is there this insistence on making F1 just like everything else? I watch it because it's not like everything else.
|
|
|
Post by XRF HammerPH on Oct 31, 2019 14:30:09 GMT
Will - BIGWILL369 - McLaren New rules for the 2021 season are out tonight. There's a show on the f1 channel 10.30pm uk revealing all. I’m afraid that these new aero regs will not provide the racing that people expect, I’ve seen data and analysis that shows as before cars won’t be able to follow as closely as is hoped, and this budget cap idea which is difficult to administer and police isn’t going to bring the midfield teams closer and will effectively open the gap to the top 3. We’re investing millions on infrastructure before the door shuts and I know that our friends in Milton Keynes and Maranello are doing the same, Liberty Media have seen what’s happened in Indycar with spec chassis and 2 engines, spec parts etc and want to turn F1 into the same show where almost anyone can win on the day, but this isn’t what Formula 1 is about and they risk turning the sport into show business But to be fair Indycar racing is much more exciting and interesting than F1. Given the choice between the two I would probably watch Indycar over F1 as it's been too samey for way too long. That final part of the race this past weekend was pretty boring knowing that no one was going to pass the car in front unless a mistake was made. There has been some better racing this year which has been good to see but not enough.
|
|
|
Post by XRF HammerPH on Oct 31, 2019 14:51:09 GMT
I think the problems is Karl that it has become just like so many other things and has absolutely lost it's identity. There is nothing unique about it any longer because we have so many races now and the drivers are becoming like clones. One of the reasons I like Magnusson is because he is unique in this sport, speaks his mind and doesn't regurgitate the same old cobblers and corporate drivel that so many others do lol
I've been a Formula 1 fan for so long that I don't want to remember lol but when people like me start to lose interest then I think it shows that there is something not quite right with the way it is going. More races is just not the way they should be going and is just a money grabbing exercise. It should be the pinnacle of motor racing and not something where there is so much of it that I don't care if I miss races because the next one is literally just around the corner. Each event used to be a real spectacle with excitement around every race weekend but now it is a bit like soap opera's.. so frequent that you can miss several and not actually miss anything :/ The fact that so much of the actual racing is so predictable has to be addressed and the sterility that has started to encompass it needs to be changed. I do still get some enjoyment out of it but when I think back to how it was there is no comparison. There is some hope becasue there has been a bit more excitement in some races over this second half of the season but how often do we actually get races where there is tension and uncertainty around the end result. Sundays was a case in point, sop much promise but it actually delivered on none of it because the cars could not get close to each other when it came down to it. The interest comes more in the build up as drivers close down the gaps but we all know that that all stops when they get a certain distance apart.
|
|
|
Post by Dale Rossi on Oct 31, 2019 16:35:50 GMT
Will - BIGWILL369 - McLaren New rules for the 2021 season are out tonight. There's a show on the f1 channel 10.30pm uk revealing all. I’m afraid that these new aero regs will not provide the racing that people expect, I’ve seen data and analysis that shows as before cars won’t be able to follow as closely as is hoped, and this budget cap idea which is difficult to administer and police isn’t going to bring the midfield teams closer and will effectively open the gap to the top 3. We’re investing millions on infrastructure before the door shuts and I know that our friends in Milton Keynes and Maranello are doing the same, Liberty Media have seen what’s happened in Indycar with spec chassis and 2 engines, spec parts etc and want to turn F1 into the same show where almost anyone can win on the day, but this isn’t what Formula 1 is about and they risk turning the sport into show business Really sucks. All that homologated crap kills just about every series it touches. They need to open it up, wide open. Run as much downforce, run ground effects, fans, all that crap if they want. If someone wants to run a hybrid, great. V12, great. They'll get more innovation that way in 2 years than they've had in the last 15. Would never happen, but one can dream.lol
|
|
|
Post by XRF Lemarrrr on Oct 31, 2019 16:44:50 GMT
I agree with some of what you’ve said Pete, in most cases I think less is more but countries want a slice of the money pie and to promote a motorsport event in countries that have little racing heritage can be damaging. Whilst keeping our legacy and sporting heritage we must also remember that in many races in the 80’s and 90’s the majority of cars DNF due to mechanical issues and only the top 3 of those eras had any chance of being competitive. Also keep in mind that the drivers of those eras that did win won by huge margins and in the most part the races weren’t that great.
I agree that the sport does need a different approach but it needs to keep its identity and heritage.
|
|
|
Post by niblips on Oct 31, 2019 16:53:15 GMT
I think the problems is Karl that it has become just like so many other things and has absolutely lost it's identity. There is nothing unique about it any longer because we have so many races now and the drivers are becoming like clones. One of the reasons I like Magnusson is because he is unique in this sport, speaks his mind and doesn't regurgitate the same old cobblers and corporate drivel that so many others do lol I've been a Formula 1 fan for so long that I don't want to remember lol but when people like me start to lose interest then I think it shows that there is something not quite right with the way it is going. More races is just not the way they should be going and is just a money grabbing exercise. It should be the pinnacle of motor racing and not something where there is so much of it that I don't care if I miss races because the next one is literally just around the corner. Each event used to be a real spectacle with excitement around every race weekend but now it is a bit like soap opera's.. so frequent that you can miss several and not actually miss anything :/ The fact that so much of the actual racing is so predictable has to be addressed and the sterility that has started to encompass it needs to be changed. I do still get some enjoyment out of it but when I think back to how it was there is no comparison. There is some hope becasue there has been a bit more excitement in some races over this second half of the season but how often do we actually get races where there is tension and uncertainty around the end result. Sundays was a case in point, sop much promise but it actually delivered on none of it because the cars could not get close to each other when it came down to it. The interest comes more in the build up as drivers close down the gaps but we all know that that all stops when they get a certain distance apart. I agree with most of your points Peter. More races is not the answer. The things Liberty have done with the sport are mostly not appealing to me. Trying to make the cars be able to race closely is really the only point i care about. Spending caps aren't going to do that. Reverse grids aren't going to do that. Less engines per season aren't going to do that. More races a year aren't going to do that....well, you get the idea.
|
|
|
Post by hurtmagurt on Oct 31, 2019 17:05:33 GMT
I'm unsure about this race. I'm moving my racing setup to a new room this weekend and not sure it will be all up and running by Sunday.
|
|
|
Post by XRF HammerPH on Oct 31, 2019 20:04:15 GMT
I agree with some of what you’ve said Pete, in most cases I think less is more but countries want a slice of the money pie and to promote a motorsport event in countries that have little racing heritage can be damaging. Whilst keeping our legacy and sporting heritage we must also remember that in many races in the 80’s and 90’s the majority of cars DNF due to mechanical issues and only the top 3 of those eras had any chance of being competitive. Also keep in mind that the drivers of those eras that did win won by huge margins and in the most part the races weren’t that great. I agree that the sport does need a different approach but it needs to keep its identity and heritage. Unfortunately it's already lost a lot its identity and heritage and has been doing so for years. There's very little in the way spontaneity about it and very few characters are allowed to infiltrate the corporate beast that it has become. Where are the Jame's Hunts, Nikki Lauda's and Nigh Mansells of this era. I remember the days you refer to very well and the excitement levels around those races despite the dnf's was massive compared to today. In some respects the dnf's actually improved the spectacle and anticipation because there was always that possibility of something happening right up to the last lap. Nowadays we certainly get far more reliability but it generally just means more cars to run around following each other to the flag lol. The Hamilton / Vettell rivalry should be something that we can talk about in the same way we do Senna and Prost or Mansell but in all the years they've been racing each other how many times have they actually been really racing. I struggle to come up with many at all. It's been kind of a rivalry but not if that makes sense. The best racing these days is in the midfield where there's much more equality and it makes for a better spectacle. I'm not completely down on the sport and as I alluded to previously the racing has been improving over the second half of the season but certainly the days are gone where I would get up to watch every session and make sure nothing got in the way of my race weekends. But it was much easier to do that when the damn things weren't coming around so frequently lol!!
|
|
|
Post by Dale Rossi on Oct 31, 2019 22:13:01 GMT
Perennial back market teams need to lose the egos and combine their efforts. That is the only way they could ever hope to contend with Ferrari and Mercedes. Won't happen, but I can't imagine owning Williams and spending all that $ just to get your teeth kicked in year after year. Same for Haas and pretty much everyone but the top 3, maybe 4.
F1 is making the same mistakes NASCAR did and if they're not careful, it will end up alienating their core fans even more.
|
|
|
Post by Dale Rossi on Nov 1, 2019 18:17:07 GMT
Didnt realize they were bringing ground effects back. That could be interesting.
Now they need to deregulate engines. Williams/Koenigsegg Formula One:1. Eats 16 sets if tires per race, but still wins by over a minute due to modern fan/ground effects and 320mph top speed.
|
|
|
Post by XRF Lemarrrr on Nov 1, 2019 20:43:29 GMT
Didnt realize they were bringing ground effects back. That could be interesting. Now they need to deregulate engines. Williams/Koenigsegg Formula One:1. Eats 16 sets if tires per race, but still wins by over a minute due to modern fan/ground effects and 320mph top speed. I’m skeptical about this whole concept and we won’t know until Australia 2021 if it’s going to be effective, at this stage it’s had no proofing of concept other than the CFD and CAD drawings and like I said earlier in this discussion early analysis from our Aero department shows similar traits to the current car in terms of the turbulence generated. I hope that the cost cap doesn’t cost too many people (myself included) their jobs.
|
|
|
Post by Dale Rossi on Nov 1, 2019 21:08:47 GMT
Didnt realize they were bringing ground effects back. That could be interesting. Now they need to deregulate engines. Williams/Koenigsegg Formula One:1. Eats 16 sets if tires per race, but still wins by over a minute due to modern fan/ground effects and 320mph top speed. I’m skeptical about this whole concept and we won’t know until Australia 2021 if it’s going to be effective, at this stage it’s had no proofing of concept other than the CFD and CAD drawings and like I said earlier in this discussion early analysis from our Aero department shows similar traits to the current car in terms of the turbulence generated. I hope that the cost cap doesn’t cost too many people (myself included) their jobs. Man, I didn't think about that and surely hope they wouldn't resort to cost-cutting that way. Even from a cold perspective, that would be a PR nightmare. You've got a kickass career and I hope this crap doesn't interfere with that. Really surprised to hear the turbulence is similar with the new cars. Wasn't decreasing that kind of the whole point?
|
|
|
Post by XRF HammerPH on Nov 2, 2019 7:39:55 GMT
Fingers crossed job losses are kept to a minimum. Not sure what Mercedes current 'performance' costs are and how much of a drop the cap would be for them. I know there overall costs were over $400 million for 2018 with an overall staff of close to 1,000 but the impact of the cap is difficult to judge. This is one of the things that will be difficult to monitor and i'm sure the teams will find creative accounting to get around this in some ways. Have you ever seen an internal breakdown of how those overall costs are distributed Dave?
On the subject of the actual changes my understanding was that there were big benefits in terms of reducing the loss of downforce when following closely behind another car but as you say this will all have been done on paper so far and with all things the proof is in the pudding.
|
|
|
Post by XRF Lemarrrr on Nov 2, 2019 11:17:26 GMT
Fingers crossed job losses are kept to a minimum. Not sure what Mercedes current 'performance' costs are and how much of a drop the cap would be for them. I know there overall costs were over $400 million for 2018 with an overall staff of close to 1,000 but the impact of the cap is difficult to judge. This is one of the things that will be difficult to monitor and i'm sure the teams will find creative accounting to get around this in some ways. Have you ever seen an internal breakdown of how those overall costs are distributed Dave? On the subject of the actual changes my understanding was that there were big benefits in terms of reducing the loss of downforce when following closely behind another car but as you say this will all have been done on paper so far and with all things the proof is in the pudding. We were told in a briefing a few weeks ago that the team would do its utmost to safeguard jobs as the people in our team are the greatest asset. There are details which I can’t really discuss but they have strategy to keep us competitive. Hopefully they’ll take voluntary redundancies 1st as I’m sure the compensation package will be very good. But motorsport is a cut throat industry and if you work in racing then you’ll be unemployed at some point.
|
|
|
Post by XRF Lemarrrr on Nov 3, 2019 18:06:02 GMT
So, as expected Ferrari have been found out, by fiddling the fuel flow telemetry to the FIA they have had an unsporting advantage. Red Bull had asked the FIA if they could run a similar system not for performance but to see if the FIA would clarify wether or not that system was legitimate, the FIA have deemed that it’s not within the sporting regulations. This is common practice in the teams as it’s less formal than a proper protest.
|
|