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Post by XRF HammerPH on Jan 27, 2020 18:28:54 GMT
The temps definitely seem off though and that was one of the problems that was exhibited when the physics of the game started crapping out when this issue was originally highlighted. Both myself and Karl used the same setup and my temps were not effected so it seems that it had to be down to the difference between the X and the original box.
The problem from the HUD is it doesn't actually show you the true temps just the colour indicator. If you look at the rsDash data you can clearly see the big difference between our respective tyres on the same lap and the fact that his were too low which would have produced low grip.
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Post by niblips on Jan 27, 2020 18:32:34 GMT
Oversteer understeer..any chance that was happening around other cars? I will say that your front brakes are getting too hot and that will kill your trail braking/turn in and hard braking zones. Have a look at lap 24. Fresh tyres, no cars around, and at the entrance to Pouhon the car just oversteers. Front right brake dips into the 600s briefly, but they do that several time on other laps and there is no ill effect. the brakes should be able to get into the 700s for short periods without too much drastic effect. They never once go yellow from what i can see.
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Post by Dale Rossi on Jan 27, 2020 18:37:55 GMT
The temps definitely seem off though and that was one of the problems that was exhibited when the physics of the game started crapping out when this issue was originally highlighted. Both myself and Karl used the same setup and my temps were not effected so it seems that it had to be down to the difference between the X and the original box. The problem from the HUD is it doesn't actually show you the true temps just the colour indicator. If you look at the rsDash data you can clearly see the big difference between our respective tyres on the same lap and the fact that his were too low which would have produced low grip. You can see your temps on your actual dash in all the cars. It is usually there by default, but if not then map a motec button to cycle it. You can cycle between brake and tire temps I've done a lot of laps with Neale and he is on the original Xbox and doesnt have this issue. That's why I think it is the setup and not the Xbox
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Post by Dale Rossi on Jan 27, 2020 18:39:02 GMT
Oversteer understeer..any chance that was happening around other cars? I will say that your front brakes are getting too hot and that will kill your trail braking/turn in and hard braking zones. Have a look at lap 24. Fresh tyres, no cars around, and at the entrance to Pouhon the car just oversteers. Front right brake dips into the 600s briefly, but they do that several time on other laps and there is no ill effect. the brakes should be able to get into the 700s for short periods without too much drastic effect. They never once go yellow from what i can see. I saw them going yellow a lot in hard braking zones. 600 is the max and 300 is the minimum on these brakes. Will check out that lap in a sec
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Post by Dale Rossi on Jan 27, 2020 18:49:39 GMT
Oversteer understeer..any chance that was happening around other cars? I will say that your front brakes are getting too hot and that will kill your trail braking/turn in and hard braking zones. Have a look at lap 24. Fresh tyres, no cars around, and at the entrance to Pouhon the car just oversteers. Front right brake dips into the 600s briefly, but they do that several time on other laps and there is no ill effect. the brakes should be able to get into the 700s for short periods without too much drastic effect. They never once go yellow from what i can see. Ok I watched it. The two hard braking zones before that, your front brakes absolutely went yellow. Your oversteer (I had to look up what the hell Pouhon was lol) on the 24th lap was because you caught the curb on the right before turn in. 100%. When I mentioned how aggressive the curbs are at Spa, that is one of them. You either have to catch it *perfectly* or increase your ride height. If it isn't happening to Peter there and you have the same tunes, he isn't using as much of the track as you are. Do a test and pay particular attention to that curb with your setup..if you don't hit it right, you fly to the left and it happened to me in Qualifying. Then go back and add 5 clicks to your ride height and that problem will disappear. I'm surprised you didn't have that issue at Silverstone at Maggots and Beckets because they are very similar in how aggressive the curbs can be. I'm hesitant to help you this much because I know how damn fast you are.lmao At the same time, I surely dont want you to quit the league or even have to splurge on another Xbox. Really hope this helps. I'm 100% positive on this in regards to lap 24 FWIW
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Post by Dale Rossi on Jan 27, 2020 18:55:26 GMT
One thing that helped with curbs is turning UP the vehicle sound (other than Engine). You can hear much easier when you bottom out and clip curbs. Also, turn on Full damage in practice so you can see if you are clipping your aero etc on curbs.
Edit: on my Xbox Live Uploads, I have external car videos of GTE at Spa. Check the one of the 911 RSR and you can hear me clipping curbs coming out of Les Combes and then one more in sector 2. It sounds like gunshots and means my setup was too aggressive, but just wanted to make a quick video. Point is, you can hear it much easier because I have that sound boosted to I can hear it when testing
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Post by XRF HammerPH on Jan 27, 2020 18:57:53 GMT
The temps definitely seem off though and that was one of the problems that was exhibited when the physics of the game started crapping out when this issue was originally highlighted. Both myself and Karl used the same setup and my temps were not effected so it seems that it had to be down to the difference between the X and the original box. The problem from the HUD is it doesn't actually show you the true temps just the colour indicator. If you look at the rsDash data you can clearly see the big difference between our respective tyres on the same lap and the fact that his were too low which would have produced low grip. You can see your temps on your actual dash in all the cars. It is usually there by default, but if not then map a motec button to cycle it. You can cycle between brake and tire temps I've done a lot of laps with Neale and he is on the original Xbox and doesnt have this issue. That's why I think it is the setup and not the Xbox Oh yeah i'm aware of that but I couldn't see any time in the video of Karls that he changed to that view on the motec so you could see the tyre temps. I don't see how it can be the setup related as we are both using the same car and setup and I used to get similar issues on my original Xbox but not since I upgraded to the X. These problems are very well documented on the forums. I thought Neale was on the X, that surprises that he's not. Also remember that some cars are not effected as easily. As mentioned in the chat group with the GT3 tests I did there was one car in particular that was far worse than others.
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Post by niblips on Jan 27, 2020 19:09:18 GMT
I wish i could see the outside view of the race as i didn't feel anything before Pouhon on that lap. Also, I'm basically running the default setup. the only changes i've made were to the aero, slight adjustment on the springs and the gearing. Ride height will be well high enough to handle the kerbs.
There are several times that the brakes get above 600 but again, it happens so much at other parts of the track with no ill effects. Getting higher for longer than a split second will lock them up, but that's not cause of the handling issues.
In my tests yesterday in LeMans i was in the 700s on my brakes several times without issues as well.
I can't imagine Neale is on an old xbox with his speed. He must be on a one x. this game has given me issues from the first time i played it. It has it's limitations on these old machines. I have to either grin and bear it or not bother with it online at all.....and that's just no fun.
I'll post video of the willow springs issues tonight. That circuit is easy enough to get consistent on as it's only got a few turns. You'll see the issues easier there in the 72D.
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Post by Dale Rossi on Jan 27, 2020 19:12:53 GMT
Peter, I'll certainly take your word for it.
You're right, I didn't see his actual tire temps and was just watching the green. Its shade does change from lighter to darker, but it's much better to see the actual reading.
At the same time, I can guarantee that spin was from the angle and curb. You can also see the front brakes are getting too hot in the hard braking zones when they go yellow, brief as it may be. They're still too hot and that kills braking zones.
Granted I'm on the X, but love driving that car, although it takes some setup work to keep the rear planted.
Neale gets lag etc and really suffers when people go into the pits. But he's had no issues in races regarding physics in any of the cars we have raced. I know Karl is similarly fast and won the whole damn F1 season, which means he uses all of the track and takes aggressive lines. Which means he rides curbs a LOT and the curbs will kill you in these cars if the setup is too aggressive. That or you have to stay off of them, or roll the dice and hope to hit them absolutely perfectly.
In a race there is so much going on that it is easy to lose focus and an inch or two here or there can cause a spin. I spun 3 times in Qualifying and hadn't spun for a week prior to that while setting faster times.
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Post by Dale Rossi on Jan 27, 2020 19:20:37 GMT
I wish i could see the outside view of the race as i didn't feel anything before Pouhon on that lap. Also, I'm basically running the default setup. the only changes i've made were to the aero, slight adjustment on the springs and the gearing. Ride height will be well high enough to handle the kerbs. There are several times that the brakes get above 600 but again, it happens so much at other parts of the track with no ill effects. Getting higher for longer than a split second will lock them up, but that's not cause of the handling issues. In my tests yesterday in LeMans i was in the 700s on my brakes several times without issues as well. I can't imagine Neale is on an old xbox with his speed. He must be on a one x. this game has given me issues from the first time i played it. It has it's limitations on these old machines. I have to either grin and bear it or not bother with it online at all.....and that's just no fun. I'll post video of the willow springs issues tonight. That circuit is easy enough to get consistent on as it's only got a few turns. You'll see the issues easier there in the 72D. He is definitely not on the X. For what it is worth, that spin/oversteer was absolutely from that curb and there are others like it. The last chicane, Eau Rouge, Les Combes all have curbs that will throw you if you hit them wrong. If you hit then right, they can throw you perfectly into the turn, too. Transitioning to these cars from open wheel is very tough. Consider Neale and I are driving these and have been driving sports cars while you guys split your time with open wheel. So the tunes and familiarity with the sports cars suffers. You can get away with hotter brake temps, but in a long race, they create a lot of problems. If they're going yellow, that's bad. 300 to 600C and especially at Le Mans, you will want to adjust your bias from time to time to keep them under control. Too cool is better than too hot. If this tune is on TT, I'll check it out when I get home. One thing that would be a curb killer would be more than 1 on the front aero at Spa, at least without a lot of setup work. The default ride height is pretty low iirc, somewhere around 60.
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Post by XRF HammerPH on Jan 27, 2020 19:24:48 GMT
Have a look at lap 24. Fresh tyres, no cars around, and at the entrance to Pouhon the car just oversteers. Front right brake dips into the 600s briefly, but they do that several time on other laps and there is no ill effect. the brakes should be able to get into the 700s for short periods without too much drastic effect. They never once go yellow from what i can see. Ok I watched it. The two hard braking zones before that, your front brakes absolutely went yellow. Your oversteer (I had to look up what the hell Pouhon was lol) on the 24th lap was because you caught the curb on the right before turn in. 100%. When I mentioned how aggressive the curbs are at Spa, that is one of them. You either have to catch it *perfectly* or increase your ride height. If it isn't happening to Peter there and you have the same tunes, he isn't using as much of the track as you are. Do a test and pay particular attention to that curb with your setup..if you don't hit it right, you fly to the left and it happened to me in Qualifying. Then go back and add 5 clicks to your ride height and that problem will disappear. I'm surprised you didn't have that issue at Silverstone at Maggots and Beckets because they are very similar in how aggressive the curbs can be. I'm hesitant to help you this much because I know how damn fast you are.lmao At the same time, I surely dont want you to quit the league or even have to splurge on another Xbox. Really hope this helps. I'm 100% positive on this in regards to lap 24 FWIW I just watched that lap too and I you are right that his brake temps do go up at LaSource and LesCombes while I am pretty sure mine don't so maybe our brake pressures are different. What did you set yours at Karl... don't think we checked that and I am pretty sure we have different pressures set as a rule. Also again correct he slightly caught the right hand kerb with the right-front tyre of the car as he turns which spins the car around. I don't think it's a ride height issue though as he only just rode slightly up on it and that straight away will send the car to the inside as you turn. You just don't want to go up that kerb at all in my view. Don't forget both Karl and myself were missing from Silverstone. Good spot on that but it still doesn't explain the big temp drop in the tyres. You could expect a couple of degrees perhaps but not 15+ that's too much and will always cause problems and should not be happening all things being equal. I think Karls tests with varying numbers of AI show that there is a definite breaking point for the game at which point things just go south on the original box. Try to find the forum posts on it and you will see there was a ton of testing done to prove the problem.
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Post by niblips on Jan 27, 2020 19:34:06 GMT
Peter, I'll certainly take your word for it. You're right, I didn't see his actual tire temps and was just watching the green. Its shade does change from lighter to darker, but it's much better to see the actual reading. At the same time, I can guarantee that spin was from the angle and curb. You can also see the front brakes are getting too hot in the hard braking zones when they go yellow, brief as it may be. They're still too hot and that kills braking zones. Granted I'm on the X, but love driving that car, although it takes some setup work to keep the rear planted. Neale gets lag etc and really suffers when people go into the pits. But he's had no issues in races regarding physics in any of the cars we have raced. I know Karl is similarly fast and won the whole damn F1 season, which means he uses all of the track and takes aggressive lines. Which means he rides curbs a LOT and the curbs will kill you in these cars if the setup is too aggressive. That or you have to stay off of them, or roll the dice and hope to hit them absolutely perfectly. In a race there is so much going on that it is easy to lose focus and an inch or two here or there can cause a spin. I spun 3 times in Qualifying and hadn't spun for a week prior to that while setting faster times. I think lag is cause by ping and the speed of the internet connection. My internet connection if fine and quite able to handle a lot...it's just this old xbox thats giving me grief. lol I'm not the quickest in these cars and don't expect to be up there at the front, especially not with the lack of consistent handling. Some laps yesterday i was having to fight the wheel and some laps were smooth as cream, but the conditions shouldn't change that much. The car is heavier and slower than the open wheelers which i'll admit i don't like, but I shouldn't be so far back. Makes me feel like newb. lol
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Post by XRF HammerPH on Jan 27, 2020 19:40:43 GMT
Here's the recording of my race on Saturday. Forgot to turn it on for qualifying but all the race is here:-
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Post by Dale Rossi on Jan 27, 2020 20:13:54 GMT
To be fair, I know Peter has the speed to consistently be on podiums, too. He admittedly doesn't have the time right now. Just one of those things where pesky life gets in the way of the important things.LOL
I'll get on here in a few and look at my Aston setup compared to Karl's (assuming the TT one is accurate).
But yeah, ad nauseam you guys may have heard me bitching about how aggressive the curbs are at Spa.ha
Temps will drop quite a bit as the race goes on because of grip, hesitancy to push the car etc. Mine got into the 100s and were in the 60s at points towards the end. That's not unusual. But, as mentioned there is a lot going on with these cars compared to open wheel. They both have their own challenges. Tryint to race both efficiently is very very difficult, even if on the same track.
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Post by Dale Rossi on Jan 27, 2020 20:17:58 GMT
Peter, I'll certainly take your word for it. You're right, I didn't see his actual tire temps and was just watching the green. Its shade does change from lighter to darker, but it's much better to see the actual reading. At the same time, I can guarantee that spin was from the angle and curb. You can also see the front brakes are getting too hot in the hard braking zones when they go yellow, brief as it may be. They're still too hot and that kills braking zones. Granted I'm on the X, but love driving that car, although it takes some setup work to keep the rear planted. Neale gets lag etc and really suffers when people go into the pits. But he's had no issues in races regarding physics in any of the cars we have raced. I know Karl is similarly fast and won the whole damn F1 season, which means he uses all of the track and takes aggressive lines. Which means he rides curbs a LOT and the curbs will kill you in these cars if the setup is too aggressive. That or you have to stay off of them, or roll the dice and hope to hit them absolutely perfectly. In a race there is so much going on that it is easy to lose focus and an inch or two here or there can cause a spin. I spun 3 times in Qualifying and hadn't spun for a week prior to that while setting faster times. I think lag is cause by ping and the speed of the internet connection. My internet connection if fine and quite able to handle a lot...it's just this old xbox thats giving me grief. lol I'm not the quickest in these cars and don't expect to be up there at the front, especially not with the lack of consistent handling. Some laps yesterday i was having to fight the wheel and some laps were smooth as cream, but the conditions shouldn't change that much. The car is heavier and slower than the open wheelers which i'll admit i don't like, but I shouldn't be so far back. Makes me feel like newb. lol Now you know how I felt when I started F1 with you guys lmao. You'll get it. I'm hoping it will be later than sooner just for pure selfishness. lol
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