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Post by XRF HammerPH on Dec 14, 2017 12:03:00 GMT
I hope to get back to some more testing of the game tonight and will revisit Indianapolis to see if the FFB that I was getting when I stopped the other night is still the same or whether it has reverted to the low level version. I really want to love this game as there are things there that I want to get my teeth into and fully enjoy but things like this just get in the way at the moment. They have made a good move by giving us access to the FFB and other game settings from within the race or practice sessions which was one of the biggest bugbears of the first game but the implementation of it still lacks common sense to me. I can’t get my head around why we now don’t have the facility to save the FFB settings per car like we used to be able to do. That made so much more sense, you loaded your setup and the FFB settings you had settled on for that car were also loaded at the same time. As it is now unless I am missing something you have to keep a written down copy of your FFB settings for every car and then manually enter them again each time. In addition to that as mentioned previously why make it so that each slider you move does so across all the four flavours :/ Surely they should each be independent of each other. It makes no sense to my logical brain to have them changed across all four flavours as you are most likely going to want different levels of Gain, Volume, Tone and FX depending on what flavour you choose. The positive of my session the other night was that as I indicated my mini wireless keyboard does seem to work with the button mapping. I have charged up the batteries now so hopefully that will see the intermittent problem resolved. I just need to go through all the various things that can be mapped and see what is the most necessary for me. Are there any that cannot be mapped and have to remain on the wheel? I’ll probably pick up the USB keyboard you linked to inthebagbud after Christmas but I have been looking at those BBJ Button Boxes which look very nice but at £47.50 they are a bit pricey especially when it’s just for the one game. How are you finding the FFB now inthebagbud have you settled on something that gives you more of what you were expecting.
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Post by y22rydr on Dec 14, 2017 17:11:19 GMT
Grrrrr.... I just seen a post on the forums that the next patch is supposed to address FFB... Again
Hammergh I will post my settings later today when I get on my console. I have not felt a need to change the settings by car.
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Post by inthebagbud on Dec 14, 2017 19:38:14 GMT
y22rydr (and anybody else) I have uploaded my excel working sheet to which I added your tire sheet as well as another with Rally tyre details The sheet also has a list of cars and tracks as well pressure details taken from forum Feel free to use as you will Project CARS 2 SetupTemplate v 3.xlsx (333.82 KB)
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Post by inthebagbud on Dec 14, 2017 19:40:03 GMT
Grrrrr.... I just seen a post on the forums that the next patch is supposed to address FFB... Again Hammergh I will post my settings later today when I get on my console. I have not felt a need to change the settings by car. Yes that is to correct the issues that Fanatecs are experiencing which is a complete lack of surface feel
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Post by inthebagbud on Dec 14, 2017 19:57:40 GMT
I hope to get back to some more testing of the game tonight and will revisit Indianapolis to see if the FFB that I was getting when I stopped the other night is still the same or whether it has reverted to the low level version. I really want to love this game as there are things there that I want to get my teeth into and fully enjoy but things like this just get in the way at the moment. They have made a good move by giving us access to the FFB and other game settings from within the race or practice sessions which was one of the biggest bugbears of the first game but the implementation of it still lacks common sense to me. I can’t get my head around why we now don’t have the facility to save the FFB settings per car like we used to be able to do. That made so much more sense, you loaded your setup and the FFB settings you had settled on for that car were also loaded at the same time. As it is now unless I am missing something you have to keep a written down copy of your FFB settings for every car and then manually enter them again each time. In addition to that as mentioned previously why make it so that each slider you move does so across all the four flavours :/ Surely they should each be independent of each other. It makes no sense to my logical brain to have them changed across all four flavours as you are most likely going to want different levels of Gain, Volume, Tone and FX depending on what flavour you choose. The positive of my session the other night was that as I indicated my mini wireless keyboard does seem to work with the button mapping. I have charged up the batteries now so hopefully that will see the intermittent problem resolved. I just need to go through all the various things that can be mapped and see what is the most necessary for me. Are there any that cannot be mapped and have to remain on the wheel? I’ll probably pick up the USB keyboard you linked to inthebagbud after Christmas but I have been looking at those BBJ Button Boxes which look very nice but at £47.50 they are a bit pricey especially when it’s just for the one game. How are you finding the FFB now inthebagbud have you settled on something that gives you more of what you were expecting. XRF HammerPH It is amusing after all the complaining about the many ffb options in Pcars1 to see people ( and this isn't aimed at you but in general) say can we have all the sliders back. Once you get used to only being able to alter the Vol/Gain/Tone/FX it actually isn't much of a fuss to map the Gain & Tone and alter these on the fly as you drive. I found plus or minus 10 on either does the trick. What I think throws people is the different approach between Pcars and AC. In AC the ffb is altered behind the scenes for each car so the feel is hardly different per car , but in Pcars they say each car is different so if you settle on a master setting and don't change it then car type A will feel different to car type B as it would in real life. Which approach is correct is open to debate and opinion and I even saw main man for AC suggest on their forum that Pcars are making a fundamental error in their approach but are too arrogant to admit it and change. He said he made the same mistake 10 years ago until somebody had the nerve to point out his error!!. Which do I prefer - I have always liked Pcars FFB better but in Pcars 1 I only ever used 3 sliders on the car FFB all others where turned off and again just changed the sliders by plus/minus 10 or so for each car. Pcars 2 FFB was spot on in the demo and I am hoping they get it back in patch 4 but it is driveable now just not as much fun due to lack of surface feel Have to agree that the sliders affecting all flavours globally seemed a bit daft but I can only surmise they assume you will settle on one flavour and not jump from one to another. I haven't started to map buttons yet - that is weekend job but the only one of top of my head I cant remember seeing is FOV & Sound - but haven't looked really hard. If you are interested some one has made a sheet for button assignements which is pretty good and I have just printed on sticky paper ready to attach to keys see this post on main forum forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?56174-Buttonbox&p=1445945&viewfull=1#post1445945
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Post by y22rydr on Dec 14, 2017 20:25:18 GMT
y22rydr (and anybody else) I have uploaded my excel working sheet to which I added your tire sheet as well as another with Rally tyre details The sheet also has a list of cars and tracks as well pressure details taken from forum Feel free to use as you will Thanks.
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Post by y22rydr on Dec 14, 2017 20:30:46 GMT
Here are my current settings for my Thrustmaster TX. You might find them a bit light and you can change that by increasing the caster (car setup menu) or the overall volume (FFB Tab) Configuration Tab Deadzone (Steering/throttle/brake/clutch): 0/0/0/50 Sensitivity (Steering/throttle/brake/clutch/speed): 50/50/35/50/0 Damper Saturation: 0
FFB Tab RAW/100/20/62/67/0.00
In the TX menu (on the control panel when hooked to a PC) I have the first 2 set to 100 and the bottom 2 set to 0.
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Post by XRF HammerPH on Dec 14, 2017 21:00:32 GMT
Here are my current settings for my Thrustmaster TX. You might find them a bit light and you can change that by increasing the caster (car setup menu) or the overall volume (FFB Tab) Configuration Tab Deadzone (Steering/throttle/brake/clutch): 0/0/0/50 Sensitivity (Steering/throttle/brake/clutch/speed): 50/50/35/50/0 Damper Saturation: 0 FFB Tab RAW/100/20/62/67/0.00 In the TX menu (on the control panel when hooked to a PC) I have the first 2 set to 100 and the bottom 2 set to 0. Thanks for posting those ill give them a try it. Just a quickie for now though as i'm about to get on to complete the next round of a rally in a league I compete in with Dirt Rally and then hopefully will get some pCars2 time. My understanding was that the TX settings you make using the PC are over-ridden by the Xbox.
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Post by inthebagbud on Dec 14, 2017 21:06:08 GMT
Here are my current settings for my Thrustmaster TX. You might find them a bit light and you can change that by increasing the caster (car setup menu) or the overall volume (FFB Tab) Configuration Tab Deadzone (Steering/throttle/brake/clutch): 0/0/0/50 Sensitivity (Steering/throttle/brake/clutch/speed): 50/50/35/50/0 Damper Saturation: 0 FFB Tab RAW/100/20/62/67/0.00 In the TX menu (on the control panel when hooked to a PC) I have the first 2 set to 100 and the bottom 2 set to 0. Thanks for posting those ill give them a try it. Just a quickie for now though as i'm about to get on to complete the next round of a rally in a league I compete in with Dirt Rally and then hopefully will get some pCars2 time. My understanding was that the TX settings you make using the PC are over-ridden by the Xbox.Yes that's right any settings made in the control panel are only accessed by the PC as console has no access to this driver as it is on the PC
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Post by XRF HammerPH on Dec 14, 2017 22:42:26 GMT
Thanks for posting those ill give them a try it. Just a quickie for now though as i'm about to get on to complete the next round of a rally in a league I compete in with Dirt Rally and then hopefully will get some pCars2 time. My understanding was that the TX settings you make using the PC are over-ridden by the Xbox.Yes that's right any settings made in the control panel are only accessed by the PC as console has no access to this driver as it is on the PC Cheers bud I assumed that was the case. I'll get back to you on your long post in the morning. Just finished with Dirt Rally and having a cuppa before getting on for a bit of pCars 2.
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Post by Innerspace HQ on Dec 15, 2017 1:01:21 GMT
Just convinced myself Merc touring car round Knockill absolutely brilliant and the stable,setup gets you up and running straight away going to have tune that little beauty UNO MAS!That's my cry as I career over the start finish line with that track car combo. Absolutely love it. Can't. Stop. Doing. Laps. Sorry I've been a bit absent lately, some serious lurgy shit/fever. Been stuck to the couch with an evil f*cking virus for about 10 days... I did notice you had bought it, bud. I expressed my delight with a few blue button likes on your achievements but wasn't capable of much more in the state I was in. I tried to play Assassin's Creed but it was ultimately too trippy with a temp of 103.5. I've only put in maybe 15-20 hours with pc2, totally distracted with other games just now. PC2 has sure got people talking, for better or worse.
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Post by y22rydr on Dec 15, 2017 1:31:20 GMT
Yes that's right any settings made in the control panel are only accessed by the PC as console has no access to this driver as it is on the PC Cheers bud I assumed that was the case. I'll get back to you on your long post in the morning. Just finished with Dirt Rally and having a cuppa before getting on for a bit of pCars 2. I don't think that is the case. I was running it at 75 overall in the TM control panel and when I changed it to 100 I noticed a change. Maybe my mind is playing tricks on me...
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Post by inthebagbud on Dec 15, 2017 6:44:07 GMT
Cheers bud I assumed that was the case. I'll get back to you on your long post in the morning. Just finished with Dirt Rally and having a cuppa before getting on for a bit of pCars 2. I don't think that is the case. I was running it at 75 overall in the TM control panel and when I changed it to 100 I noticed a change. Maybe my mind is playing tricks on me... Sorry but that must be a placebo in operation this is link to a post I quoted from wmd forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?52440-Fanatec-wheel-users-and-FFB-settings&p=1441538&viewfull=1#post1441538If you think about the driver in is stored on the pc and nit in the wheel so it doesn't function with xbox
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Post by inthebagbud on Dec 15, 2017 6:49:06 GMT
Just convinced myself Merc touring car round Knockill absolutely brilliant and the stable,setup gets you up and running straight away going to have tune that little beauty UNO MAS!That's my cry as I career over the start finish line with that track car combo. Absolutely love it. Can't. Stop. Doing. Laps. Sorry I've been a bit absent lately, some serious lurgy shit/fever. Been stuck to the couch with an evil f*cking virus for about 10 days... I did notice you had bought it, bud. I expressed my delight with a few blue button likes on your achievements but wasn't capable of much more in the state I was in. I tried to play Assassin's Creed but it was ultimately too trippy with a temp of 103.5. I've only put in maybe 15-20 hours with pc2, totally distracted with other games just now. PC2 has sure got people talking, for better or worse. Innerspace HQ glad to see you are getting over the man flu I have only quickly dabbled with Knockill but although in real life it can be a bit depressing (only the Scots would have their national circut in the most exposed place at the top of a hill in a valley where the wind can whistle down for fun) the layout and elevation changes are superb. Hopefully when I have done my technical,reading this week I can start to get to grips with some tuning. If mp would stabilise a TC championship would defiantly be on the cards
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Post by XRF HammerPH on Dec 15, 2017 9:43:15 GMT
That's how I always understood it too. Once the wheel is disconnected from the PC there is no effect from the TM control panel settings.
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Post by XRF HammerPH on Dec 15, 2017 10:23:35 GMT
So, another frustrating spell last night at Indianapolis. I was looking forward to trying to get a setup down ready for an Indycar league running a full schedule including ovals starting in January but as soon as I was released onto the pit lane even with the console controlling my car I could tell the FFB was off again. Out on the track proper and once again as with the previous attempt on Tuesday there was hardly any feedback at all. I gave it a couple of laps to try to bed in but still nothing so I started tinkering with the settings hoping it would spring to life but it remained the same, maybe a very slight increase but not enough to make any real difference. I tried your settings y22rydr but still no difference for me. I tried going over the grass just to see what effect that had.. pretty much zero and in the end I got so fed up with the messing around that I went round the final turn and headed full pelt for the pit wall to see what sort of feedback I would get from that huge impact.. NADA!! Not a jolt. Pathetic!! Indy is the only oval I have so far tried but I will attempt a couple of the others next just to see if it is a universal oval problem or just an Indy specific one. If any of you guys have the chance I would appreciate it if you could take out the Indycar (the oval variety not the road course car) and let me know what you find. After that and to try to get some love back for the game and to give my head a rest after pulling my hair out for the past half an hour I went to Long Beach and took the road version of the car around there. FFB was back but of course the settings were all messed up with all the pfaffing around that I had been doing for Indy and I had to go back to try to put them back how I had them previously (thanks SMS.. that dopey design decision is going to be annoying as hell!!) but at least I managed to get some laps in before calling it a night. I still do not particularly like the FFB implementation in the game, it’s still got a kind of lumpy and gritty feel but at least there is something there to work on unlike at Indy. EDIT: Oh and I actually forgot that when I first loaded up the track the wheel started spinning on it's own and completely spazzed out when I tried to drive out. Massive forces acting on the wheel holding it hard right so I tried to re-calibrate it but to no effect so I unplugged it for fear of breaking it trying to turn it back to centre. Another weird glitch with this games wheel interaction.
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Post by XRF HammerPH on Dec 15, 2017 11:26:51 GMT
I hope to get back to some more testing of the game tonight and will revisit Indianapolis to see if the FFB that I was getting when I stopped the other night is still the same or whether it has reverted to the low level version. I really want to love this game as there are things there that I want to get my teeth into and fully enjoy but things like this just get in the way at the moment. They have made a good move by giving us access to the FFB and other game settings from within the race or practice sessions which was one of the biggest bugbears of the first game but the implementation of it still lacks common sense to me. I can’t get my head around why we now don’t have the facility to save the FFB settings per car like we used to be able to do. That made so much more sense, you loaded your setup and the FFB settings you had settled on for that car were also loaded at the same time. As it is now unless I am missing something you have to keep a written down copy of your FFB settings for every car and then manually enter them again each time. In addition to that as mentioned previously why make it so that each slider you move does so across all the four flavours :/ Surely they should each be independent of each other. It makes no sense to my logical brain to have them changed across all four flavours as you are most likely going to want different levels of Gain, Volume, Tone and FX depending on what flavour you choose. The positive of my session the other night was that as I indicated my mini wireless keyboard does seem to work with the button mapping. I have charged up the batteries now so hopefully that will see the intermittent problem resolved. I just need to go through all the various things that can be mapped and see what is the most necessary for me. Are there any that cannot be mapped and have to remain on the wheel? I’ll probably pick up the USB keyboard you linked to inthebagbud after Christmas but I have been looking at those BBJ Button Boxes which look very nice but at £47.50 they are a bit pricey especially when it’s just for the one game. How are you finding the FFB now inthebagbud have you settled on something that gives you more of what you were expecting. XRF HammerPH It is amusing after all the complaining about the many ffb options in Pcars1 to see people ( and this isn't aimed at you but in general) say can we have all the sliders back. Once you get used to only being able to alter the Vol/Gain/Tone/FX it actually isn't much of a fuss to map the Gain & Tone and alter these on the fly as you drive. I found plus or minus 10 on either does the trick. What I think throws people is the different approach between Pcars and AC. In AC the ffb is altered behind the scenes for each car so the feel is hardly different per car , but in Pcars they say each car is different so if you settle on a master setting and don't change it then car type A will feel different to car type B as it would in real life. Which approach is correct is open to debate and opinion and I even saw main man for AC suggest on their forum that Pcars are making a fundamental error in their approach but are too arrogant to admit it and change. He said he made the same mistake 10 years ago until somebody had the nerve to point out his error!!. Which do I prefer - I have always liked Pcars FFB better but in Pcars 1 I only ever used 3 sliders on the car FFB all others where turned off and again just changed the sliders by plus/minus 10 or so for each car. Pcars 2 FFB was spot on in the demo and I am hoping they get it back in patch 4 but it is driveable now just not as much fun due to lack of surface feel Have to agree that the sliders affecting all flavours globally seemed a bit daft but I can only surmise they assume you will settle on one flavour and not jump from one to another. I haven't started to map buttons yet - that is weekend job but the only one of top of my head I cant remember seeing is FOV & Sound - but haven't looked really hard. If you are interested some one has made a sheet for button assignements which is pretty good and I have just printed on sticky paper ready to attach to keys see this post on main forum forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?56174-Buttonbox&p=1445945&viewfull=1#post1445945Yeah I agree about the complaints from the first game’s FFB implementation but in all honesty the main issue I had with pCars 1 FFB implementation was 1) So many things to tweak with no real explanation of what they do and how they interact with each other. This had to come from external parties. 2) the fact that you had to exit a practice or race session to access the global FFB and other wheel settings. But despite those annoyances I really liked the way the FFB worked in the first game, especially how the settings were saved with your car setup so none of this chopping and changing settings manually for different cars the way it has been done in pCars 2. I do like the fact that they’ve allowed the wheel and other game settings to be made available from the practice or Race sessions though, that’s a big plus point for the game this time. The new method with the reduced FFB options is basically it seems to me a dumbed down version of what we had before which forces you to make a compromise between the various FFB options. For example as I understand it Volume controls the weight of the wheel and also the road surface and kerbs so if you like a heavier wheel you lose some of the feel from the road \ kerbs and vice-versa. Tone dictates the surface feel and tyre slip so again if you want to add more surface feel you then lose some of the tyre slip feel so what the car is doing get’s lost. I have yet to find a combination that provides the sort of information I get from Assetto’s FFB. It seems to me that if you have to remove most of the wheel weight in pCars 2 to get anywhere near what you require in terms of surface feel and grip levels but then it almost feels like you are using a non-FFB wheel with the wheel being so light. Personally for me the Gain should stay constant once you have set it (just the same as the overall FFB setting in the first game was not altered once you had it how strong you liked it) and I have Tone and Volume mapped to alter them on the fly to try to find that sweet spot as they are what govern the surface feel and slip. In Assetto although I use the exact same settings for every car (so far) each car still feels different and reacts differently because I think the underlying physics are just better. They simply nailed the FFB (only Dirt Rally is close in this regard) and you can feel through the wheel exactly what the car is doing. I haven’t given up hope of still finding something close in pCars but it’s proving much more of a chore and that search takes away from just trying to enjoy some racing at the moment. But therein lies the problem, if the FFB isn’t right the racing is less enjoyable so it’s something that’s difficult to avoid.
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Post by XRF HammerPH on Dec 15, 2017 11:39:20 GMT
Just to qualify my comments in the above post I think I would probably be looking at this a bit differently if I were racing just Project Cars at the moment. I would not have such a direct comparison as I do now where I am spending equal amounts of time in Project Cars 2, Assetto Corsa, Dirt Rally and F1 2017. It makes it very difficult not to be critical rather than taking the game for what it is.
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Post by XRF HammerPH on Dec 15, 2017 12:21:44 GMT
Grrrrr.... I just seen a post on the forums that the next patch is supposed to address FFB... Again Hammergh I will post my settings later today when I get on my console. I have not felt a need to change the settings by car. That's always the problem with the patches, they can undo the work you have been doing already. But if it's something that is much needed then that's just the way it has to be I guess. Currently I have only driven a couple of closed top cars (GT3 and Corvette) and the Indycar and definitely the Indycar needed a different set of FFB parameters to the Corvette and GT3. If I find something that I am happy with on the Indycar i'll try it on the Corvette or GT3 car and see whether it suits that now as well.
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Post by XRF HammerPH on Dec 15, 2017 15:25:09 GMT
This is an interesting read on the FFB and with settings for each car and a score for the FFB at various tracks in the game:- forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?51351-Force-feedback-explained-Configuration-settings-for-all-cars-and-tips/page1Interesting to note that Indianapolis is one of the tracks with the lowest score for both surface detail and FFB and that all the other ovals score the same so I am not expecting to find anything more from them when I test them. But there are a lot of others with similarly low scores too including a classic track like Monza and the historic Spa which scores amongst the lowest of them all. I have driven that circuit in another sim and it should have terrific surface detail and FFB.
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