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Post by XRF HammerPH on Nov 30, 2017 23:45:00 GMT
Yep.. I installed pCars 2 last night after I had finished an Assetto session, I left it doing its business overnight. I am not intending to do anything setup wise or get into it too much until that next patch as it will probably change a lot and could negate any work put in beforehand. Anyway, I gave it a first run out at lunchtime today, just enough time for a quick 30 minutes in the Corvette at the Ring so I could do a very direct comparison with Assetto where I am racing that combo on Sunday and practiced it last night. I was actually reasonably pleasantly surprised with pCars. Graphically I think it is probably better than Assetto in so far as it has a bit more atmosphere I think. It felt a bit more real mainly I think because you can set the date so I was able to run it as if there now and the colours felt very Autumnal as opposed to Assetto’s very clear and bright look. It’s clearly not very well optimised though and a few places around the circuit got a bit sluggish even with just my car on track in a practice session. Admittedly the Ring is probably very resource hungry with so much detail having to be loaded into memory but I do hope the patch alleviates that a little. It made little corrections of the car at certain points of the circuit quite difficult, far more so than Assetto.
One thing that was very apparent was the lack of a real sense of speed. Even when flat out along the long straights I never really got that feeling of speed. It reminded me a bit of Forza in that respect. I'll have to test other cars and tracks to get a true picture and the open wheelers may provide a better sense of it but at the moment that's something that is a little disappointing. Assetto in the same car and track is much better in that respect and you can almost feel the wind rushing by the car.
For me based on that little test Assetto is superior in FFB, Sound and handling. The FFB in pCars 2 is pretty good and admittedly I only tweaked it a little as it was too strong around centre on default but it just felt to me more gritty and clumpy with some feedback coming hard rather than having any great transition. Hard to explain in words but with Assetto its very smooth in how the FFB is transmitted and gives a better sense of the cars attitude and makes little corrections easier to make. Assetto has just half a dozen settings and I've rarely had to adjust them since the first time other than when an update comes. It just works perfectly for every car. I'll play around with the pCars FFB to see how much I can inprove that affect.
Sound just was more immersive in Assetto, it had more depth and vibrancy and was more how I expect it to be in the cockpit of the car. pCars is still pretty good but first impressions are that its not quite there in comparison to the Kunos game.
The interface of pCars 2 knocks Assetto for 6, far superior and a massive improvement over pCars 1 with most everything now adjustable from within the race session. It used to bug the hell out of me how you had to back out of a session every time you wanted to tweak something like the FFB, graphics, etc. I am going to give it some more time over the coming days to get a true feel for what it gives.
Oh one quick thing though.. how the hell do you get back to the pits in pCars 2!! I was in a practice session and wanted to go back to the garage the way we can in pCars 1 using the 'return to pits' option but there was no option for it.. at least I couldn’t find it!! Just ‘Resume’, ‘Restart’ or ‘Exit’ am I missing something?
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Post by Innerspace HQ on Dec 1, 2017 3:12:45 GMT
Yep.. I installed pCars 2 last night after I had finished an Assetto session, I left it doing its business overnight. I am not intending to do anything setup wise or get into it too much until that next patch as it will probably change a lot and could negate any work put in beforehand. Anyway, I gave it a first run out at lunchtime today, just enough time for a quick 30 minutes in the Corvette at the Ring so I could do a very direct comparison with Assetto where I am racing that combo on Sunday and practiced it last night. I was actually reasonably pleasantly surprised with pCars. Graphically I think it is probably better than Assetto in so far as it has a bit more atmosphere I think. It felt a bit more real mainly I think because you can set the date so I was able to run it as if there now and the colours felt very Autumnal as opposed to Assetto’s very clear and bright look. It’s clearly not very well optimised though and a few places around the circuit got a bit sluggish even with just my car on track in a practice session. Admittedly the Ring is probably very resource hungry with so much detail having to be loaded into memory but I do hope the patch alleviates that a little. It made little corrections of the car at certain points of the circuit quite difficult, far more so than Assetto. One thing that was very apparent was the lack of a real sense of speed. Even when flat out along the long straights I never really got that feeling of speed. It reminded me a bit of Forza in that respect. I'll have to test other cars and tracks to get a true picture and the open wheelers may provide a better sense of it but at the moment that's something that is a little disappointing. Assetto in the same car and track is much better in that respect and you can almost feel the wind rushing by the car. For me based on that little test Assetto is superior in FFB, Sound and handling. The FFB in pCars 2 is pretty good and admittedly I only tweaked it a little as it was too strong around centre on default but it just felt to me more gritty and clumpy with some feedback coming hard rather than having any great transition. Hard to explain in words but with Assetto its very smooth in how the FFB is transmitted and gives a better sense of the cars attitude and makes little corrections easier to make. Assetto has just half a dozen settings and I've rarely had to adjust them since the first time other than when an update comes. It just works perfectly for every car. I'll play around with the pCars FFB to see how much I can inprove that affect. Sound just was more immersive in Assetto, it had more depth and vibrancy and was more how I expect it to be in the cockpit of the car. pCars is still pretty good but first impressions are that its not quite there in comparison to the Kunos game. The interface of pCars 2 knocks Assetto for 6, far superior and a massive improvement over pCars 1 with most everything now adjustable from within the race session. It used to bug the hell out of me how you had to back out of a session every time you wanted to tweak something like the FFB, graphics, etc. I am going to give it some more time over the coming days to get a true feel for what it gives. Oh one quick thing though.. how the hell do you get back to the pits in pCars 2!! I was in a practice session and wanted to go back to the garage the way we can in pCars 1 using the 'return to pits' option but there was no option for it.. at least I couldn’t find it!! Just ‘Resume’, ‘Restart’ or ‘Exit’ am I missing something? Assetto is better ffb, better handling, better road feel... but... you can't really do dick with it but hotlap. That's it's issue. It's been out for how long now and it's very, very messy. The half way house would be pc2, not quite as good in feels but still excellent and it'll let you race with more depth. Asseto seriously lacks depth. I find it hard to compare asseto to anything on console too. It's very PC-y, if that makes sense? Plus you know SMS will carry on the tweaking with a far higher frequency than Kunos can. By comparison SMS have an army at their disposal. There's def a return to garage function, right now I can't point you at it 'cause I've not played in a while but you can totally go straight back to garage.
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Post by XRF HammerPH on Dec 1, 2017 12:22:52 GMT
Yep.. I installed pCars 2 last night after I had finished an Assetto session, I left it doing its business overnight. I am not intending to do anything setup wise or get into it too much until that next patch as it will probably change a lot and could negate any work put in beforehand. Anyway, I gave it a first run out at lunchtime today, just enough time for a quick 30 minutes in the Corvette at the Ring so I could do a very direct comparison with Assetto where I am racing that combo on Sunday and practiced it last night. I was actually reasonably pleasantly surprised with pCars. Graphically I think it is probably better than Assetto in so far as it has a bit more atmosphere I think. It felt a bit more real mainly I think because you can set the date so I was able to run it as if there now and the colours felt very Autumnal as opposed to Assetto’s very clear and bright look. It’s clearly not very well optimised though and a few places around the circuit got a bit sluggish even with just my car on track in a practice session. Admittedly the Ring is probably very resource hungry with so much detail having to be loaded into memory but I do hope the patch alleviates that a little. It made little corrections of the car at certain points of the circuit quite difficult, far more so than Assetto. One thing that was very apparent was the lack of a real sense of speed. Even when flat out along the long straights I never really got that feeling of speed. It reminded me a bit of Forza in that respect. I'll have to test other cars and tracks to get a true picture and the open wheelers may provide a better sense of it but at the moment that's something that is a little disappointing. Assetto in the same car and track is much better in that respect and you can almost feel the wind rushing by the car. For me based on that little test Assetto is superior in FFB, Sound and handling. The FFB in pCars 2 is pretty good and admittedly I only tweaked it a little as it was too strong around centre on default but it just felt to me more gritty and clumpy with some feedback coming hard rather than having any great transition. Hard to explain in words but with Assetto its very smooth in how the FFB is transmitted and gives a better sense of the cars attitude and makes little corrections easier to make. Assetto has just half a dozen settings and I've rarely had to adjust them since the first time other than when an update comes. It just works perfectly for every car. I'll play around with the pCars FFB to see how much I can inprove that affect. Sound just was more immersive in Assetto, it had more depth and vibrancy and was more how I expect it to be in the cockpit of the car. pCars is still pretty good but first impressions are that its not quite there in comparison to the Kunos game. The interface of pCars 2 knocks Assetto for 6, far superior and a massive improvement over pCars 1 with most everything now adjustable from within the race session. It used to bug the hell out of me how you had to back out of a session every time you wanted to tweak something like the FFB, graphics, etc. I am going to give it some more time over the coming days to get a true feel for what it gives. Oh one quick thing though.. how the hell do you get back to the pits in pCars 2!! I was in a practice session and wanted to go back to the garage the way we can in pCars 1 using the 'return to pits' option but there was no option for it.. at least I couldn’t find it!! Just ‘Resume’, ‘Restart’ or ‘Exit’ am I missing something? Assetto is better ffb, better handling, better road feel... but... you can't really do dick with it but hotlap. That's it's issue. It's been out for how long now and it's very, very messy. The half way house would be pc2, not quite as good in feels but still excellent and it'll let you race with more depth. Asseto seriously lacks depth. I find it hard to compare asseto to anything on console too. It's very PC-y, if that makes sense? Plus you know SMS will carry on the tweaking with a far higher frequency than Kunos can. By comparison SMS have an army at their disposal. There's def a return to garage function, right now I can't point you at it 'cause I've not played in a while but you can totally go straight back to garage. I'd have to disagree re Assetto being just a hotlapping title. They got the multiplayer in several patches ago and a bunch of us have been racing a very competitive support series to our F1 2017 Championship for some time now. It's very quirky in it's interface for sure but as a racer it's at the top of the tree at the moment. The depth I can't comment too much on yet as I have not see what pCars has to offer other than on the surface but definitely their weather options are far superior. However, the downside is that the AI do not seem to be effected by the conditions in the same way as us humans which kind of negates it in many respects in so far as the racing is badly effected if you race the AI. Online it would be great but of course online is where it's major flaws lie. The tweaking on console is never going to be frequent due to the stringent processes they have to go through but I am still surprised that there have been only two SMS patches on console in over 2 months, 1 really because the first one they had been working on well before release. Assetto have had one big one and one small one in that time but they have far less issues to correct and theirs are more adding functionality rather than fixing things that aren't working. I do like what I have seen with the game so far though and need to give it more of a run out before making a real assessment but I still suspect that Assetto will be the one I go to most out of the two, especially for online racing. But time will tell. The return to pits was definitely missing from my Nurburgring practice.. it was very odd.
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Post by inthebagbud on Dec 1, 2017 22:21:24 GMT
I have been reading the last few posts with interest and can only conclude the human race is so diverse, which no doubt in some thesis somewhere is summed up as unique and hence why designers just will never get it right for everybody. The comments from XRF HammerPH regarding FFB peaked my interest and with Pcars 2 going same route as AC with having less FFB options I decided it was time to fire up AC again to see if things had changed. My initial thoughts where not really driving the road cars up first in career - although I could feel understeer I could do nothing about it as I had no side load weight to the wheel - in pcars 1 have this setting just about right and can really balance a car around the corners on the edge of grip. The other issue I have with AC is no feeling of forward slipping under braking again the car just slips and keeps on slipping with no real feedback allowing me to do anything about it. In Pcars 1 with the weight/load balance I can feel/see and can pretty much use the ffb to match my driving to hitting apex's - i get a real sense of what is going on. That being said I then picked the BMW M3 E3 round Silverstone international I must say the experience was so much better , on stock setup it was driveable and I could feel the side load weight much more and it felt good. I fired the Group 5 up in Pcars 1 and whilst the difference was less I still enjoyed Pcars 1 better. As I am only running demo of Pcars2 i couldn't compare with the BMW & track but had a spin in the Renault 3.5 in Pcars 1 & 2 . To some extent Pcars 2 suffers from the lack of feedback for slipping under braking but with a little tweaking I could get it roughly to feel like AC but as with AC the lack of feedback contributed to missed apex's and a lot of slipping under braking. Its not scientific but I do prefer Pcars 1 FFB over both Pcars 2 & AC and can see I am going to have to change my style if I go Pcars 2 The comment regarding lack of speed is interesting and I did notice a marked difference when bashing down the Silverstone straight that in AC the landscape zipped past far more than either Pcars 1 or 2 and if you are playing predominately AC then this will be very noticeable. I am not sure if this is down to the AC FOV as I think there FOV looks different to Pcars - but this would need testing further. A big plus to AC here for being able to adjust from the session The sound comment is a funny one as I generally use headphones and Pcars2 volume mixing is way out - I have turned everything down to 20 or so to be able to hear the engineer . under headphones you do not get the sense of positional sound no matter what they say or how good the phones are, but use full surround sound through an amp and oh boy Pcars 2 wins handsdown. AC game sound felt good as when I fired it up the music had some good bass and I thought h'mm that sound good but the race sounds didn't come across as well On the issuing of xbox coping with Pcars 2 it is generally acknowledged that xbox one struggles but on the one X the issues seem cured - there is a setting in options to set level of graphics with 3 presets which may be worth looking at. I think this will always be an issue compared to AC as pcars does have a lot more going on MP has no comment from me as its not my bag but SMS do seem to be lousy at it - simple truth On patches you are right the first patch was the last months work before release as the commit to disk print is around a month - so this became day one patch. The next patch was to fix issues found after release and I think 3 is more about getting game to where they wanted it to be at release. From posts a patch 4 is being worked on and I suspect we may get to 6 before they stop. They probably need to work a bit more on fixing and improving the game as sales have not been as expected and they need to get the title back in the consumer shop window . It will be interesting if sales are low whether we get Pcars 3 as they are working on projects for other franchises at present and they may decide the grief they get may not be worth it - but that is a definite watch this space unsubstantiated comment I am going to play with demo a bit more as I still need to convince myself to move over as I am enjoying Pcars1 so much.
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Post by XRF HammerPH on Dec 4, 2017 16:02:40 GMT
Interesting view inthebagbud and I can only assume it is wheel dependent because the FFB in Assetto knocks spots of that of pCars (both versions) from my standpoint. One really clear as day thing for me is the lack of road feel in pCars 2, it's kind of glass like and a bit detached from the road as a result until you get to a bend or turn where the side forces start to come in. In Assetto (and F1 2017 for that matter) you can feel the road beneath the wheels and as a result there is a much more dynamic feel about the whole thing. I went into the settings and started tweaking things to try to find something that felt more in line with what I wanted and went through the various 'flavours' and also tweaked the settings beneath those flavours that are meant to improve the road feel but I just couldn’t get anything that worked for me. Their attempts to simplify the FFB settings are welcomed but I do feel that maybe the merging of certain things under the ‘Tone’ setting (Mz and Fy) have not quite worked and means you now have a compromise situation. That being said I am still in the early days of playing around with it so have not given up on finding something that will give me what I want and something that comes close to what Assetto gives so easily. One thing that did frustrate me immensely was that after playing around with the settings and then starting a new testing session when I went back out on track everything felt very light. At first I thought I had turned everything down too much but it quickly became apparent that my old nemesis had reared it’s head very early in my pCars 2 experience.. complete loss of FFB. Now I had heard that you can recover the FFB much easier than in the previous game where it required a reboot of the wheel (sometimes more than once) but I couldn’t find any way to get it back and had to turn the power to the wheel off a couple of times before the FFB came back. Now this was a pCars 1 problem that only used to surface online so to discover so early on that they have ‘improved’ this bug to now hit offline as well was not something that thrilled me!! Now onto something that I found really crazy. The Nordschleife…. Remember my comment about the lack of a ‘Return to pits’ option.. well I wasn;t having a mad moment. If either of you have had any time on track here I would welcome your feedback on it as what I discovered shocked and really disappointed me. I went back to another ‘Private Testing Session’ at the Nordschliefe to do another comparison run with Assetto but was confused when I wanted to get my car back to the pits as the ‘Return to pits’ option was not available.. It was there when I tested Monza so I found it very odd. The only way to go straight to the pit garage was to use the ‘Restart’ option which of course meant a complete start from scratch of the session losing the previous lap times information, etc. I carried on and decided to come to the pits the old fashioned way by driving to them only to find the pit entrance blocked by those hard white tyres!! Huh!! I was confused. In the end I had to abandon the session and decided to have a proper race session instead so off back to the menu’s I went. More confusion then began… the option to set a practice and quali session was locked and only ‘Race’ was available.. strange I though. I went to the preset races section, and tried to set something that allowed me to race the Schliefe but nothing enabled that. Removed all defaults tried selecting various cars but still no joy, only a race can be set. So a bit baffled I went for it anyway and just had the game start me from a random position on the grid. Had some fun with the AI over the first couple of laps but then picked up some damage trying to squeeze past a couple of AI in the last sector of the lap so needed to come into the pits…. Therein lies the problem.. the hard, white tyres were still there blocking the pit entrance!! WTF!! So it seems in their infinite wisdom they have taken away the option to do anything meaningful at probably the best and most iconic track on their roster. I am totally bemused!! Maybe you can shed some light on this for me Innerspace HQ Have I missed something as I can’t find anything on the fourms mentioning this. Is there some hidden pathway to the pits that I have not unlocked, do I need to stand on my head with my pants around my ankles before the way into the pit lane or garage is revealed to me as I am sure they wouldn’t really handicap this track in such a ridiculous fashion :/ If they have then it’s totally bonkers especially seeing as the track was there in full in pCars 1. Sound wise I am still much preferring Assetto’s, it’s a deeper throatier sound at least in the Corvette that I have mainly used in the comparison with pCars 2 although the latter does have more in terms of tyre squeal which I can’t say I have noticed in Assetto. I do use headphones for the most part when I am racing and haven’t noticed any particular issues but maybe that will come if \ when I do more actual racing with the game as I have not had much cause to have the engineer speak to me yet. I’ll try the presets you mentioned inthebagbud to see whether anything there helps with the sluggishness I noticed at times although I am not sure about the comment re more going on in pCars 2 as I was using the exact same conditions in both games so there were no additional weather effects, etc. going on and I think the apparently deeper physics of Assetto would be more resource heavy anyway. Time will tell whether they can reclaim any of the ground lost over the release of this game but with SimBins GTR3 due for release possibly around the end of Q1 2018 they may have missed their chance to push themselves to the fore of the sim genre for console. Right now I am not sure where they fall amongst the current batch of racing titles but I am still hopeful that once the patch hits us that it will make enough improvements to get things back on track and bring people back to the game and start racing it in the way in which it should have been raced from the start. I should hopefully get in some more time with the game over the next few days and am considering joining a GT3 league once it is confirmed that the patch has fixed the online ill’s and hopefully the problems with the puddles get resolved too. I may also look at running something myself over at RaceDepartment unless you fancy trying something here?
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Post by XRF HammerPH on Dec 4, 2017 16:03:33 GMT
Have you had any further thoughts on picking the game up yet inthebagbud
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Post by y22rydr on Dec 4, 2017 22:50:26 GMT
Regarding the loss of FFB. I have not had it (that I noticed) since the second patch. When it was happening, I had to unplug my wheel from the console then plug it back in. I found sometimes I had to do that twice because the first time would result in one of my pedals not working. I think that might be because I was holding a pedal down. But like I said, I have not noticed the problem recently.
Dialing in FFB. I am running a TM TX and I have it where I like it. It lightens over rises, loads up under braking, and I can feel the front end sliding. Regarding rear slip, I need to spend some more time with the settings to raise the level. I feel it, but not as much as when the front slides. I think I get more from the audio and video when the back end starts to step out.
Overall I am pleased. I primarily run offline and there is a lot of game to explore.
I do have to agree that SMS missed the mark though. There must have been some pressure to get released before FM7... Hopefully the latest patch (3.0) tightens up the game.
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Post by XRF HammerPH on Dec 5, 2017 0:17:30 GMT
The loss of FEB was probably the main bug that I hoped would be fixed from the first game so to find it happens offline now is a real pita and poor show from SMS. Rebooting was the way to get it back in pCars 1 but I was hoping for a better solution now. I'll go back over some old posts on another forum as thats where the way to get around it was posted.
If I find it i'll be sure to pist back here.
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Post by inthebagbud on Dec 5, 2017 7:50:38 GMT
XRF HammerPH a morning read on the Nords pit issue forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?52352-We-know-No-Pit-at-Nordschleife&highlight=Nordschleife+pits although there are no answers as such. On the other points lets see how you feel after a few hours - I did feel a little underwhelmed at first but now I am coming round to enjoying the game and feeling as confident as Pcasr1 in racing. On the presets what I meant is that the graphics are more dynamic, higher resolution and with all the live track stuff going on the xbox can struggle - on the one x it looks superb and knocks the socks of AC - I might even put the old xbox back up and compare The game is really growing on me and patch 3 will be the trigger for the purchase till then practicing with demo allows me to look at game options and start to tune
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Post by XRF HammerPH on Dec 5, 2017 14:22:01 GMT
Thanks for that link inthebagbud been reading some of it and will get through the rest but i'm glad to see I am not the only one that feels it's a crazy decision. At least some explanation would have been nice rather than just leaving it for people to discover themselves. I can't for the life of me understand the reasoning behind it's omission when it was already there and working perfectly in the first game Admittedly I still have not spent much more time with it so need to explore it further but definitely the FFB needs improving a lot for it to come close to what I expected and to give it the feeling of realism that I get with Assetto. I'll experiment with the settings as there must be a way to improve the road feel as I can't believe that's how they meant it to be. I'll still enjoy it no doubt and will hopefully get many hours of fun with it. The patch doesn't seem to change anything in the FFB but at least it is promising in the improved performance it is meant to bring and hopefully the overheating tyre problem has been nailed. The big question is when does it land. I am reluctant to get too involved with the game until it has. Granted you are probably right on what causes some of the apparent sluggishness but I can put up with that if the underlying game is there. It's far from unplayable but just has those slight moments where it seems to struggle. A bit like Race Pro on the 360... the graphics were poor and performance was not great but for the physics and realism it was the best on that box by a long shot. I trade graphics and all the bells and whistles for the driving feel and experience every time. If patch 3 can address the multitude of issues then i'll happily stay with it and max out the enjoyment over the next year or so while i'm still on console. Xbox One X is more than likely a no-go for me, it's just ludicrously over-priced for me even more-so than the One when it came out hence why I didn't jump on that until the price was right. My reasons for first coming to console back when I got my 360 was that the price differential between a new PC that would run the racing title(s) I wanted at the time and the 360 was a big one, I just couldn't consider it. But since then the console > PC price point is getting ever closer and I can pick up a PC for just about the same price as the One X which will happily run the racing games I want and I don't play anything else so there are no other factors to consider in that respect. I love the simplicity of the console but they have become too uncompetitive in price now and the greater variety of PC racing titles is a big draw too.
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Post by XRF HammerPH on Dec 5, 2017 15:10:12 GMT
inthebagbud are you able to enter Time Trials in the demo? If so how about we put up a little TT challenge to kick things off with this game here? How about the Nordshleife in a classic car? It's the only mode the track can really be driven for competition in it's present form
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Post by inthebagbud on Dec 5, 2017 22:27:03 GMT
inthebagbud are you able to enter Time Trials in the demo? If so how about we put up a little TT challenge to kick things off with this game here? How about the Nordshleife in a classic car? It's the only mode the track can really be driven for competition in it's present form XRF HammerPH unfortunately not we only get access to 3 race scenarios which are fixed
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Post by XRF HammerPH on Dec 6, 2017 17:29:33 GMT
Ah ok that's a shame. Never mind just a thought.
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Post by inthebagbud on Dec 8, 2017 7:59:18 GMT
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Post by XRF HammerPH on Dec 8, 2017 17:21:14 GMT
lol Downloaded the patch yesterday and spent a fair bit of today checking the game out a bit more thoroughly anf will report back what I found later.
A good time to set a new Time Trial challenge perhaps?
Nordschliefe anyone? 😉
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Post by inthebagbud on Dec 9, 2017 8:58:42 GMT
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